DETROIT (ChurchMilitant.com) - University of Toronto professor and clinical psychologist Jordan Peterson sparred with Channel 4 presenter Cathy Newman on topics such as the crisis of masculinity, the so-called "wage gap" and transgender pronouns.
Throughout the interview, Newman asked charged questions and tried to corner Dr. Peterson into saying something the mainstream media could run with as a soundbite. Selected clips from the interview can be seen below. The full interview can be seen at the bottom of this article (warning: some strong language).
Peterson went on to say:
But there's multiple reasons for that, one of them is gender, but it's not the only reason. Like, if you're a social scientist worth your salt, you never do a univariate analysis. If you say, well, women in the aggregate are paid less than men, okay, well, we break it down by age, we break it down by occupation, we break it down by interest, we break it down by personality.
Newman responded by accusing Peterson of saying it doesn't matter if women aren't getting to the top. "That 9 percent pay gap exists, that's a gap between men and women; I'm not saying why it exists, but it exists. Now, if you're a woman that seems pretty unfair."
Peterson gave an example of a personality trait, agreeableness, that was positively related to salary. Newman shot back, "So you're saying women by and large are too agreeable to get the pay raises they deserve?"
Peterson replied, "No, I'm saying that's one component of a multivariate equation that predicts salary. It accounts for maybe 5 percent of the variate, something like that, so you need about another 18 factors, one of which is gender."
He went on to say, "There is prejudice, there's no doubt about that, but it accounts for a much smaller proportion of the variance in the pay gap than the radical feminists claim. "Newman also asked Peterson of his opinion of gender equality and equal pay for equal work. Peterson answered while giving clarifications of the loaded phrases involved, while Newman continually shot back with accusations implying that he didn't believe men and women are equal or are due equal pay in any sense.
The debate touched on the question of transgender pronouns, the issue that catapulted Peterson to global visibility in 2017 leading to the passage of bill C-16 in Ontario, mandating use of preferred pronouns of people with gender dysphoria. Newman asked Peterson, "Why should your freedom of speech trump a trans person's right not to be offended?"
Peterson responded, "In order to be able to think you have to risk being offensive. I mean, look at the conversation we're having right now. You're certainly willing to risk offending me in the pursuit of truth, why should you have the right to do that? It's been rather uncomfortable."
Newman paused for several seconds to come up with her response. Newman went after Peterson for saying radical leftists are "authoritarian" and comparing them to leftist dictators such as Mao.
"The philosophy that's guiding their utterances is the same philosophy."
Newman asked how the philosophies were comparable, Peterson replied, "The first thing is that the philosophy presumes that group identity is paramount. That's the fundamental philosophy that drove the Soviet Union and Maoist China, and it's the fundamental philosophy of the Left-wing activists."
Since the interview, memes have bubbled up online pointing out the accusatory dynamic of the exchange. Previously, Peterson was even the subject of a video skit put out by the animated political parody site Freedomtoons.