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DETROIT (ChurchMilitant.com) - On Friday, Dr. Steven Mosher, a man with many hats — author, China expert, pro-life advocate, president of Population Research Institute (PRI), member of Catholic Advisory Group for the Trump campaign — gave an interview to Church Militant.
Dr. Mosher talked about his new literary project, Pandemonium: The Pandemic Road to Serfdom, a collection of free, downloadable essays written by professionals around the world about the real and politicized dangers of the pandemic and how leftists are using it to seize power.
He also weighed in on the origin of the China virus and how the cure has become more dangerous than the disease itself. And he deconstructed what's at stake in the upcoming election:
So if Biden wins, America loses. If Biden wins, the babies lose. Biden-Harris will do everything they can to promote abortion in the United States. They will make us pay for it. They will punish us for speaking out against it. They will arrest pro lifers who do pro-life sidewalk counseling outside of abortion clinics. They will shut down pro-life organizations by abusing the powers of the Internal Revenue Service, the IRS. They did that the last time around. And I think this time around, they'll be even more aggressive and more vicious.
The pro-life advocate, as always, spoke with respect for the unborn, this time in relation to vaccines: "The children are long dead. We can't bring them back to life. We can certainly honor their memory by not using vaccines derived from their execution."
And lastly, he urged Catholics to "pray as hard as we can and work hard and to make sure that the Nov. 3 victory is simply overwhelming."
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Church Militant: Tell us about your new book, Pandemonium: The Pandemic Road to Serfdom, and why you wrote it.
Dr. Mosher: Well, I think the answer to why we put it out now is because we are in the middle of a pandemic. And what we see on the part of international organizations and the U.N., the World Health Organization, leftists in the United States and around the world is they're seizing upon this pandemic as an opportunity to create pandemonium. And pandemonium, of course, means a system, a situation, of complete chaos and confusion, which the left and the abortionists and the globalists and the elitists in the United States and China itself are all using to advance their own ends.
And, of course, there's another meaning of pandemonium as well. Pandemonium does not just mean a situation of mass chaos and confusion. Pandemonium — in the original sense — pan means "all" and demonium means "all of the demons." It's the unleashing of all the demons on the world today. The demon of abortion and the demon of the Left, of Marxism, of socialism or communism, of globalism, of all of the demons that seek to undermine respect for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the United States and not just in the U.S. — around the world.
You know, this book is a compendium of writings from our friends on all continents. We have contributions from Latin America. We have contributions from Europe. We have contributions, of course, from North America. We talk about the origin of the pandemic in China. We talk about how it's being used by leftist governments and leftist movements around the world to advance their agenda. And we talk about what we need to do to stop this movement because we have to be ready.
This will not be the last pandemic that's unleashed upon the world. Half of all the pandemics in the last century came from China. I would probably give you pretty good odds that the next pandemic will come from China as well. China is in one sense, in a sense of health issues, is a human petri dish. We saw SARS come out of China. We saw the avian flu come out of China and H1N1. We saw the swine flu come out of China in the last century. We saw other epidemics come out of China, including the misnamed Spanish flu in Taiwan. And 1918, 1919, 1920 it didn't come from Spain. It came from China. It was brought over by Chinese workers — 75,000 of them who were brought over by the allies through Canada to the French lines to dig trenches for the allied soldiers. And they brought with them a dangerous flu which infected the Americans, the French and other peoples who were fighting in the war and caused the massive number of deaths in the United States.
But it was only called the Spanish flu because the censorship was so great in the United States, Canada, the U.K. and France that you couldn't write about the fact that more soldiers were falling ill from this influenza than were being killed and wounded in battle. But Spain was not at war. And so the Spanish press was free to write about the flu and it became known as the Spanish flu. But make no mistake, it came from China. The next pandemic will come from China as well. Whether it will be created in the lab or whether it will arise from nature, we cannot say now, but we must be ready. We cannot allow this kind of destabilizing pandemonium to occur again. So that's a long answer to a short question. That's why we wrote the book.
Church Militant: There's an echo of Friedrich Hayek's book, The Road to Serfdom, in the title of your book. Did you intend that?
Dr. Mosher: Oh, absolutely. You know, in years past, I was a Bradley Resident Scholar at the Heritage Foundation and read through [Hayek's book]. Once I got back from China in 1980 [I returned] as a convert to the free market, free-market capitalism because I'd seen communism up close and personal — and it was a tyranny and a tragedy. It was a tyranny in the sense of the government was making all the decisions for the people. It was a tragedy because the human rights abuses — the hunger, the lack of freedom that was imposed on the Chinese people — was a tragedy for them. And now, of course, it's a tragedy that's been spread around the world. So I began reading through all the great conservative books, including Friedrich Hayek's The Road to Serfdom, in which he says, if we give all power to the government, the government bureaucrats, we will be giving up our freedom forever. And that road, the road to centralized government control, is what he called the road to serfdom.
And it doesn't stop at serfdom. It goes all the way through to slavery because, at the end of the day, you will wind up being enslaved by a one-party dictatorship of the kind that we see in China, which wants to control not just what people buy and where people go and what people say — it wants to control their very thoughts. And that's a frightening thing.
Church Militant: You've talked in your book and elsewhere about real science being replaced by political science. Please elaborate.
Dr. Mosher: Well, everybody, not everybody, but almost a plurality of governments around the world have thrown science out the window and used the pandemic, used the crises, for their political ends. Certainly, the Chinese Communist Party, to start there where the pandemic began, has used it for their own political ends. They released it deliberately upon the world. Now, I would say — along with Dr. Yan Limeng, along with Professor Joseph Tritto, along with Professor [Nikolai] Petrovsky of Flinders University in Australia, along with a number of other virologists — I would say this virus was created in the lab. There is increasing evidence. I think that genomic evidence is, quite frankly, so compelling that I find it hard to believe that any reasonable virologist, any reasonable scientist, would try now to deny it.
There are clearly a couple of insertions in the genome of this, what I call the China virus, that are artificial that could only have gotten there through the intervention of man. It didn't come from nature.
But China, of course, after having released it upon its own people — inadvertently or deliberately — we don't know it — then spread. It was allowed to spread, was deliberately spread throughout the world by a decision, a conscious decision, of the Chinese Communist Party. There's no other way to construe it. We have evidence that flights from the city of Wuhan to other cities in China were stopped while flights from the epicenter of the epidemic, Wuhan, filled with Chinese passengers — some of whom were infected — were allowed to fly from Wuhan to other cities around the world. That is a deliberate use of what I consider to be a bioweapon and a bioweapons attack. And China must pay a heavy price for doing that.
So back to your question — using the virus for political purposes. The first entity to do that was the Chinese Communist Party because it has spread the virus around the world for its own political purpose, which is to help China become the dominant power in the world by weakening its adversaries — specifically the United States. And then when the virus arrived in Italy, when it arrived in Spain, when it arrived in the United States, what do we see?
We see the leftist government of Spain locking down the entire country in a frenzy of what one can only call — you know — they let their hidden fascists out. I mean, they were expressing their totalitarian impulses. They were finally free to express their totalitarian impulses. And what did they do? They locked everybody in their homes. They locked the entire country's economy down. And they're in the middle of a depression even today as a result of this, you know, I would almost say overreaction, but it's not an overreaction on the part of the Left. This is what the Left is eager to do.
It is eager to control our lives, where we go, what we do, what kind of cars we drive, how much fossil fuel we use, what kind of jobs we have. All of these things they would like to dictate to us rather than let us make decisions for ourselves. And so the leftist government in Spain was just sort of revealing its inner fascist.
And then we see leftist governors in the United States like the governor of the state I was born in, Gov. [Gavin] Newsom, who, when faced with very few cases of COVID-19, nevertheless attempted to lock down the entire state, the largest state in the union in terms of population. California has, I think, the seventh-largest economy in the world all by itself. You had the governor of New York do the same thing. And even worse, of course, the governor of New York inexplicably allowed COVID-19 to spread throughout the nursing homes in the state, killing off over 10,000 seniors.
Again, this is overreach; any reasonable person would say it's overreach. I would say it's a natural expression of the leftist socialist project, which is one of increasing control over our lives and increasing power on their part. So the reason we wanted to release the book — and people should know that it's available for free, that it can be downloaded for free — is that this didn't just happen in the United States. This happened in Europe. It happened in Central America, South America. Everywhere leftists were in charge, they took advantage of the pandemic to seize more control for themselves, more power over the people. So it's been an assault not just on the health care system, not just on our health and well-being, it's been an assault on freedom worldwide. And we can't let it happen again.
Church Militant: Tell our viewers about your role on the Catholic Advisory Group for the Trump campaign.
Dr. Mosher: Well, the purpose of the Catholic Advisory Group for the Trump campaign is basically to argue that Catholics in good conscience cannot vote for a candidate who is pro-abortion, and a pro-abortion candidate in this race is clearly Joe Biden. And as Cdl. Müller recently said, it would be better to vote for a believing Protestant than for a bad Catholic. The goal of our group, of course, is to make it clear to Catholics that there really is only one choice for believing practicing Catholics if we want to remain to be true to the principles of our faith.
There is so much at stake here even going beyond this. Of course, if Biden wins, China wins. Right. China is on track, was on track. Up until 2016 to become the dominant power on the planet. And the Obama-Biden administration seemed determined to manage America's decline. They had already consented. They had already agreed to America's decline. They thought it was inevitable. You know Obama's magic wand.
How do you bring the jobs and factories back? Well, guess what? You put tariffs on Chinese goods and you encourage American factories to locate, relocate back to the United States and out of China. It can be done. But they already conceded that this was going to be the 21st century. It was going to be the century of China. And fortunately, we dodged that bullet in 2016. But, you know, they're there. They're back at us again.
So if Biden wins, America loses. If Biden wins, the babies lose. Biden-Harris will do everything they can to promote abortion in the United States. They will make us pay for it. They will punish us for speaking out against it. They will arrest pro-lifers who do pro-life sidewalk counseling outside of abortion clinics. They will shut down pro-life organizations by abusing the powers of the Internal Revenue Service, the IRS. They did that the last time around. And I think this time around, they'll be even more aggressive and more vicious.
And if Biden wins, then Americans lose in another sense because they lose to the globalists, they lose to those who are promoting global government, who want to strengthen the U.N., who want to give the money back to the World Health Organization, which, quite frankly, betrayed the health of the world in supporting China's fairy tale about the lack of human-to-human transmission, the lies from China, about this being a naturally occurring virus. And on and on, even to the present day. If Biden wins, the European Union wins and Great Britain loses in its effort to recover its sovereignty. If Biden wins, families lose because the government will be put into the business to continue the Obama-Biden project of weakening the family and replacing it with the community. Right? As Hillary Clinton once said, it takes a village to raise a child. No, it doesn't. It takes a mother and a father to raise a child. But these people are moving in the other direction. They want to destroy the fundamental unit of society, the family. So as far as I'm concerned, if Biden wins, everybody loses the babies lose the elderly, lose, the health care system loses. The economy gets shut down. The only people who win are China and the globalists. And of course, Wall Street wins because it continues. It will be allowed to continue to make money off the China trade, even at the sacrifice of American workers and jobs.
Church Militant: What is your reaction to Attorney General Bill Barr's recent comparison of the lockdowns to slavery?
Dr. Mosher: Attorney General Bill Barr is one of my heroes. He's obviously under vicious attack from the Left. Virtually every day now and from within his own bureaucracy at the Department of Justice, 90% of the [department's] members ... when they contributed to a political campaign, contributed to the Democrats. So clearly, he's in a hostile work environment. And he actually didn't compare the lockdown to the slavery. He said slavery was in a different category. But he said "apart from slavery," that this is probably the worst violation of personal freedom and liberty in the United States that we have ever seen. I certainly agree with that. I mean, it's clear to all of us that the cure proposed by the left for the disease is far worse than the disease — a permanent lockdown.
Some of the governors — of California, the governors of New York and New Jersey and a couple other states — seem to want to keep us locked down permanently until we vote the right way, which is to say, until we put their friends in power back in power in Washington, D.C. So I think it's clearly a political ploy. But the costs of this, you know — I have on my staff an EMT who during the day works for me and at night is on call as an emergency medical technician with the local fire department, responding to emergency calls for help. Now, a few of the calls are still for COVID-19, but most of those aren't serious. Most of the calls now are for suicide attempts and for overdoses. And sometimes those are the same thing — people overdose and attempt to commit suicide. Sometimes the overdose is accidental. Sometimes suicide is attempted by other means. That's the real health crisis in this country, and it's caused by the lockdown.
This is a direct consequence of locking people down in their homes. And I would even put it more strongly. I think it's a form of, you know, you're not just putting someone in jail. It's worse than that. You're putting them in solitary confinement. And we know that individual human beings who are put in solitary confinement, deprived of interaction with their fellow human victims over time, find it very, very difficult psychologically to survive that kind of isolation. So this lockdown is, I think, more akin for many people, especially the elderly people who live alone, it's more akin to a being put in solitary confinement. And the consequences — health consequences, psychological consequences, the decrease in birthrates, for example, the increase in divorce rates, all of the social consequences, I think — will be with us for a long, long time.
And for the children going around and seeing everybody in masks it must be a particularly terrifying experience. They're being deprived of an education and put in a situation where they're made to be fearful, and they really don't understand the reasons why. The mainstream media is lying to us about the reasons why anyway, so even adults are confused. But children must be especially confused. I think children will bear the scars of this experience for a long, long time if you're 7 years old. Seven months is a long, long time to have lived through this.
Church Militant: Your book contains a letter to President Trump regarding the pandemic. Tell us about that.
Dr. Mosher: Yeah, we sent a letter to President Trump. I think there were some 70-odd individuals who signed the letter urging him to take a number of steps. We know that he saw the letter. We know that it was on his desk, and he was talking to the Coronavirus Task Force about it. One of the recommendations we know he followed — we urged him to put an epidemiologist-statistician on the Coronavirus Task Force. And he put Dr. Scott Atlas on the task force, who has taken, of course, the larger view that we were just talking about, that the cure can't be worse than the disease, that you have to factor in the ancillary costs of any sort of quarantine that you impose on the people — any sort of shutdown you impose on businesses in terms of the lost jobs, the economic cost and so forth. So we know he took that recommendation to heart. And I think Dr. Atlas, to judge from all the criticism that he's been getting, is doing a very, very good job on the task force.
What we were worried about was [that] we had people like Dr. Anthony Fauci on the task force. And Dr. Fauci knows probably more about viruses than anybody else in the world, although he doesn't always tell us everything he knows. And his solution, of course, to any sort of a viral epidemic is a vaccine and a lockdown. And his view is that we can eliminate a new virus, a new, deadly virus from the face of the earth simply by preventing it from spreading. How do you prevent it from spreading? Well, we lock everybody in their homes until the virus dies out. OK, that is a fine solution if you're willing to put up with an enormous human cost as a result of lockdown. But you can't eliminate a virus from the face of the earth by preventing it from spreading — by forcing everyone to stay in their little cells, individual cells isolated from one another. The virus can't spread unless the host comes in contact with other people. But the cost of doing that is enormous, as we've seen. And so he's sort of pursuing this idealized goal of extirpating a virus from the face of the earth, completely oblivious as a virologist to the people who are committing suicide, to the divorces, to the bankruptcies, to the economic cost. He's in a single-minded, obsessive pursuit of killing off this virus, even if he kills off, you know, hundreds of thousands of human beings in the process.
So we need to get somebody on the task force who is being sensible, who would look at the big picture. And the good news is we've got a president who's got wonderful common sense. And President Donald Trump is grounded. President Trump spent his life building buildings. In order to build a building, what do you have to do? You have to have a blueprint. You have to hire contractors. You have to sign contracts. You have to make sure everybody stays on schedule. You have to keep the finance people happy. You have to make sure it's completed on time and that it makes a profit. He's been doing that his entire life. He's a man who wants results.
And what you get on the part of normal politicians is just glittering generalizations. You get happy talk. You get rhetoric. And you don't get action because these are people who deal in words, not actions. We have a president, thank goodness, in this time of pandemic who deals in actions more than words, and it's actions that will save lives.
Church Militant: You've raised an alarm about vaccines derived from aborted babies. Say a bit about that.
Dr. Mosher: Yes, we're very concerned that some of the vaccines that are being developed do use fetal stem cell lines that were derived from aborted babies. And I think many, not just Catholics but Christians — people of goodwill — find that morally objectionable. I certainly do. And it is even more objectionable in a practical sense when you realize that there is no need to use fetal cell lines, derived from aborted babies. There are other procedures now that can be used to devise vaccines. You can use a cell line derived from eggs. You can use other mechanisms to generate an immune response in human beings that actually don't involve using cell lines at all — just little pieces of genomic genomes that you can put together in the lab and use to promote an immune response to protect you against things like COVID-19, the China virus. So we're encouraging these alternatives. We were happy that Sanofi has just announced that one of its vaccines is going to be clean. They're going to stop using fetal cell lines and use a clean — morally clean — vaccine in its place. I think everybody should move in that direction.
And we should demand that from the vaccine manufacturers. We should bring it up to our doctors when our children are facing a vaccination. We should ask them to check and we'll end this abuse of children. The children are long dead. We can't bring them back to life. We can certainly honor their memory by not using vaccines derived from their execution.
Church Militant: Where can viewers find information about your petition to the president for a clean vaccine?
The petition is online at our website, which is pop.org. Very easy to remember — p o p dot org. That's Population Research Institute; pop is short for population. So that's where they can go to sign the petition.
And, you know, we have now in Washington, D.C., a government that's listening to us, and we will have that government in place at least until next January 20. Hopefully for four years beyond that. And the second and third-tier people in the Trump administration are absolutely on our side. There are many, many wonderful pro-lifers, pro-life Catholics, who are doing all they can on behalf of life, from whatever position they occupy in the White House or Health and Human Services or elsewhere. So now is the time we need to move forward on all these fronts. We will not have this opportunity forever. And so we now need to move forward to save as many lives as we can (of unborn children).
Church Militant: Despite this depressing reality, you see hope. Say something about that.
Dr. Mosher: Well, I don't know why God smiles upon the United States of America. But He did in 2016 by convincing someone [Trump] who had, as he frequently tells us, a very good life before he ran for president, a very successful life. He has been the victim of countless attacks, law[suits], personal attacks on himself and his family for the last four years. He certainly didn't need to [serve as president] nearing the end of his life. But he did out of love for life, out of love for his country.
And so I think it's important for all of us in the weeks leading up to the election to do all we can to ensure that President Trump is elected in a landslide. The other side is clearly prepared to use law[suits]. They have now 800 attorneys and counting to challenge the results of the state level and the county level [races]. The win has to be so massive that it cannot be overturned by street demonstrations, by the insurrection, by the revolution that Antifa and BLM and others are planning if the election is close.
So we still control our own destiny. So the one big hope, of course, is that Americans [would understand the stakes], having lived through this pandemic and having seen what the Left would do if they had been in control of the country. The entire country — not just New York and California, the entire country — would be locked down for months on end.
The economic damage, the damage to the [citizens'] health and well-being, especially the elderly, would be enormous — enormous. We can avoid that. We know that there will be other pandemics in the future. We have to be ready for them. And I think we will be ready for them this time around. We were out of [personal protective equipment]. We had no ventilators. When the pandemic began, President Trump, the Coronavirus Task Force, Peter Navarro and the White House looked around and said, where are the supplies that were supposed to be on hand, ready to go, [to] ... deploy? They had been used up in the previous epidemic and never replaced. We will be ready for the next pandemic, which in all likelihood will come from China.
Church Militant: What else would you like to tell viewers?
Dr. Mosher: So let's all do all we can over the next few weeks to re-elect the most pro-life president in my lifetime for another four years. And also to be aware of the dangers, the multiple dangers on multiple fronts, that come from China, that come from the globalists, that come from those who want to dictate to us how we live our lives. This is the most important election of our lifetime. Without a doubt. I said that in 2016 when I was also on the Catholic Advisory Group for the Trump campaign in 2016. But this election is even more important. I think it's more important because we see more clearly than ever before what the leftist program is; they have not hidden their hand. They are open about their desire to seize power.
And really, for the first time in my lifetime, I'm frightened not just for the outcome of this election. I'm frightened for the future of my country, because [of what] Benjamin Franklin said [when] walking out of the Constitutional Convention when he was asked, "What kind of government have you given us, Dr. Franklin?" And he said, "a democracy, if you can keep it."
In a democracy, the barbarians are always at the gate. We're always only one generation away from losing the 2,000-year experiment in Western civilization, which I think in political terms reached kind of culmination with the American founding over two centuries ago and is expressed in our secular creed, our secular creed of the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Gettysburg Address — a few other famous orations by the American founders who are also philosophers, by the way, great men and all Christian. We're in danger now of losing that because of pressure from abroad, pressure from China, the pressure created by the pandemic, the pressure created by the mainstream media.
Thankfully, we have Church Militant and other outlets now to help counteract the multiple pressures on the U.S. experiment in democracy which are, I think, greater than they have ever been. I think [the pressures are] greater even than [what] we faced during World War II, because, after all, during World War II, we were united as a people. Now the threats come not just from overseas, from China. The threat comes from inside the United States with large swaths of the American population not understanding how difficult it is to preserve a government of ordered liberty — how important their freedoms are and how, once that freedom is lost, it's very, very difficult to gain back.
So this is the most important election of all of our lifetimes. And it's very important that we elect the most pro-life, most pro-American president in my lifetime. I say that as someone who wrote a couple of speeches for President Reagan, who was a wonderful leader. But, you know, in his time, the country was not nearly as divided as it is now. So the stakes are that much higher.
So let's pray as hard as we can and work hard and to make sure that the Nov. 3 victory is simply overwhelming.
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